A letter to my liberal friends

Tax-rebate
Tax-rebate

Dear liberals,
Enough man. I'm already paying all the freaking tax in this country, and now I don't get the rebate? I was going to turn around immediately and put it back into the economy by spending it. But now I guess I can't. Well maybe you'll spend yours on a new laptop, which will find its way into my Apple stock, and then I'll cash it out at some point down the road. Oh, but that might not work either, if your friend Obama or Clinton are elected, because they want to tax the crap out of my capital gains, too. Okay, so I'll buy a house, so I can write off all the mortage loan interest and lower my taxable income (you liberals call this a tax loophole only available to the rich, right?). Oh man, wait a second, I'm paying more in property tax than the 9 other houses on the block, combined, because their taxes only go up minimally, while mine gets set to the sale price of my house. Hmm, but that's fair, right? Since I can buy a house, why shouldn't I pay 50% of the property taxes on my street. I mean, I have the money, so why not take it? And why not increase the taxes on gas while you're at it... it's nearly $1.00 per gallon now, but you know I can handle much more, because I am driving this nice car. And we all know people with more expensive cars should pay higher gas taxes. Of course, that's what is done for registration. Oh and I forgot to thank you for wanting me to pay $4,000 in sales tax for the purchase of my car I bought in Oregon - where they have no sales tax. Do you really think I was trying to get out of paying the sales tax - when I lived there for the previous 15 years, and an additional 11 months before moving here?
I am living paycheck to paycheck these days, trying to get caught up on life. But you... you think I'm not paying enough. Not paying my "fair share" in taxes. If what I am paying now is still not fair, I can't imagine what is.
Kind regards,
Schomer


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rebecca
f'ing word.
Scio, Scio
That's a real son of a bitch, man. I feel bad giving this a favorite but I want this up on the front wall.
Seth Rubenstein
[this is good]
Sir, Kudos, keep on fighting and rocking hard.
reality checker
[this is good]
Seriously, time for a reality check. The point of the rebate is to give money to people and families who 1) need it to pay bills on increased fuel / energy costs and to pay down their debts, and 2) will re-inject it into the economy via typical consumer spending channels, thus buoying our economy. If that's true, the best choice is to give it to people most hurting for the extra income, right? So, explain to me how it makes sense to give it to folks that *already* have an AGI greater than $75k ($150k filing jointly) [1]? Or, in your case, since you aren't getting any rebate and it sounds like you don't have kids or a family, an AGI greater than $87,000? That figure puts you in the top 4% [2] of the U.S. income distribution, sir. You can't seriously tell me you're hurting for that extra $1200 any more than the other 96% of the population. If you really think you need it that badly, I would encourage you to seek a personal financial advisor.

[1] http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/rebates2008.htm
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Papi Chulo
I'm sure the single mom who is going to use her rebate to hopefully get the car fixed so she can put in a few more hours at job #2 and then maybe get the kids some new clothes really feels for you. Perhaps she'll split her rebate with you so you can get a spare key cut for the BMW.

You're not paying all the taxes. Those of us who have chosen to not have children, and who make what the fed considers a lot (without consideration for local cost of living) but still can't afford to purchase a house, are paying all the taxes.

Sucks that I'm not getting a rebate either, but you know, I think getting all bunched over a free $600 would sort of preclude me from any rights to be pissed about the insane debt we're now in. Plus, if everyone like us was entitled to this rebate, then they'd probably have to give less to the people that actually need it.

Yeah, maybe they'll use it to buy a MacBook so your stock will go up. Jeez. Count your fucking blessings, man.
Phaedrus

Yea, what a freakin' ebenezer scrooge, man. I'm not a Christian, don't even believe in your typical God, but I'm willing to bet that you do, and I just want you to know that Jesus had a few choice words to say about people like you.

And that's my two cents.

Schomer
Yes, you are correct. The rebate is intended to stimulate the economy. Period. So if I received the rebate, it would go immediately back into the economy - not into my bank account, or to pay off bills, or any of that. Directly to a local company in my town, which just might help them keep that extra employee or pay the bills to keep things going during slow times.
Schomer
I'm not all bunched over not getting the rebate. That's just the cherry on top. It's a reminder that we're being taxed to death. It has nothing to do with what a rebate might do for a less fortunate person, and I in no way have compared myself to anyone like that or said I am more worthy. I am thankful for what I have. I give what I can to those who are less fortunate - more than anyone else I know. But as you know from living in the bay area, the costs of living are extreme - for both renting and owning. Even with a well paying job, it's simply not easy living here. And then uncle sam tells you that you're rich. Hardly.
Scio, Scio

but I'm willing to bet that you do, and I just want you to know that Jesus had a few choice words to say about people like you.

That's pretty much like only once cent, bud. What did Jesus say about people like Schomer? That would be the other cent.

Or does your aversion to a typical God mean you aren't capable of making a typical (that is, coherent) argument?
Scio, Scio

once cent

damn.
'one' cent, obviously.
Phaedrus
Not quite sure whose side you're on in this here debate Scio. But I am not your enemy.
grahamblank

Being taxed to death? Really?? Take a look around...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=1000976

Relative to our companions in the G7, as well as other OECD nations, we tax our citizens at a substantially lower rate. If we're being taxed to death, our friends on the other side of the pond must be the walking dead.

I don't know anybody that *likes* taxes, but remember to look outside your Bay Area bubble now and then.

Scio, Scio
Nor am I yours. Don't take my tone personally...it amuses me to be belligerent, and I'm constantly hoping someone will fire back at me. Parry, riposte, all that.
I would like to know to which passages you refer.
Phaedrus
Well I wasn't replying to anything YOU said, I was replying to the author of this blog post. I just think that he is being your typical snobbish rich guy. And yes, if he makes more than $87,000 then he is rich in my book. I think he needs to count his blessings and stop worrying so much about taxes, he has had it pretty damn good for the past 8 years of the Bush administration. Maybe that is why he is being so confrontational, because he knows that his free ride is coming to an end soon.
Scio, Scio

Well I wasn't replying to anything YOU said,

that doesn't matter.

I just think that he is being your typical snobbish rich guy

The more you make, the less you'd think he was a snob. It's your money, you earn it. However, our tax system punishes success. The more you make, the more they take. That's something that anyone who wants to rise from the lower class to the middle or upper class should be worried about.

Phaedrus

" The more you make, the more they take"

But that's not exactly true, now is it? On income tax, that maximum tax rate is capped at 35% and the tax rate is progressive, meaning he first $7,825 of taxable income is taxed at 10%
from $7,826 to $31,850 is taxed at 15%
from $31,851 to $77,100 is taxed at 25%
from $77,101 to $160,850 is taxed at 28%
from $160,851 to $349,700 is taxed at 33% and
anything over $349,701 is taxed at 35%.

So a person making $35,000 a year and a person making a $10 billion a year pays the same percentage in taxes. I don't think that our tax system punishes the rich, the fact remains that taxes are a necessary evil and who is better equipped to pay more, the rich. That's just a fact of life, and of course they pay most taxes, in sheer numbers, but as a percentage, I have just shown that for incomes over $350,000 they don't.

What would be your solution? Tier the tax code the other way, so that the lower income brackets pay more in taxes? I hear rich people complaining from time to time, but the fact remains that they can afford high dollar tax lawyers to shelter their money from a lot of taxes, they are doing just fine.

Phaedrus

supposed to read:

a person making $350,000 a year and a person making $10 billion a year pays the same percentage. Sorry.

grahamblank
"The more you make, the less you'd think he was a snob." Fallacious argument, by assumption.


As to our tax system "punishing success", by your reasoning (since we tax lower-income brackets at a lower rate), we're also "rewarding failure": the less I make, the less they take. To put it another way, this means that your scenario is more favorable for those rising from lower to middle income than for those rising from middle to upper income.

So...

Economists generally agree that, in the absence of political disruptions, income inequality increases over time. Given the current level of inequality in this country -- the top 20% of our population receives ~60% of the national income, I'd say we're not doing enough to assist those less fortunate than our pal Schomer.

Or maybe you'd prefer a consumption-driven, rather than income-driven, tax system....


Schomer
Let me attempt to put my situation in perspective for you, if you're interested.

I got sick of paying thousands of dollars a month renting a house that my family of four simply didn't fit in, so I used nearly all of my savings to get myself into a house that is nearly an hour's drive away from work.

My house payment, property tax, insurance, and utilities, are about $6,000 per month. This is a small 3 bedroom house. Not what you'd call a rich guy's house.

That $6,000 doesn't include anything else that a typical family requires - such as food, clothing, gasoline, car, car insurance, medical bills, pharmacy bills, upkeep of the house, or wonderful things like the state of California telling me they want $4,000 in sales tax for a used, year 2000, car that I bought 11 months prior to moving into California for $15,000.

So here I am. Paying my bills. Working hard to provide for my family and keep my career going. And I can't put money away for myself, my wife, or my kid's future. And I'm really not far from going under completely, if something were to take a turn.

And what caused me to vent via this post was my tax return. Apparently, as far as the government is concerned, I make so much money that I don't get any child credit, or rebate, or anything except my standard deductions on my house - which don't come close to making it affordable. Gas prices are out of control. Utilities are out of control. Supplemental taxes hit me every year, for ridiculous things all these liberals think can only be solved by taxing people more. It just keeps going and going.

So explain to me now, how I am being snobbish. And please show me where that free ride is because, let me tell you, I sure could use it.
Phaedrus
It always amazes to hear people living in California complain about how expensive it is to live there. Move!!!! It's really as simple as that. I'm sure that whatever your career is, you could find a job almost anywhere in the country. $6000 a month for rent, etc, are you freakin' kidding me? It would take me almost 6 months to make that kind of money. I understand your frustration but your anger is misplaced, your problems are not due to excessive taxes, my friend, your problems are the state of California and the ridiculously high cost of living there. I live in NC and I'm moving to the Chapel Hill area as I've been working at the hospital there. Do you want to know what the high end for a 3 bedroom house for rent is? Less than $900 a month. This is in the expensive area of town where Doctors live. come on man, move!!! I've been to California, there's nothing there keeping you there. California is hell on earth if you ask me.
Phaedrus
4 months to make that kind of money for me. Sorry.
Schomer
I'm in software, my friend. And this is where the work is. Also, great weather. I was tired of being indoors all the time, in Portland.
Phaedrus
Here in NC we have the RTP, Research Triangle Park, tons of software jobs here. There are software jobs all over the country, my friend. Also, great weather. Also there is Florida too, if you don't like any snow. My friend, my point is that if you choose to live in probably the highest cost of living area in the country, and make no mistake, it is a choice, then you don't really have any room to complain about it. And you also can not pass the blame onto other things, taxes, which have nothing to do with your plight. IF you like it there, good, that's fine, just don't complain about it. Complain to your local California legislators.
grahamblank
$6000 / mo? That puts your housing expenses alone at $72,000 / year, which is still more than most households in the US make. (For reference, median household income is about $48,000 / year.) Nobody makes a secret of the high cost of living we have in California, but don't pretend you can't work in software outside silicon valley.

I would encourage you to take 5 minutes and read this article (NYT, free reg. req'd). Be careful when you start sounding like that...
Phaedrus
Exactly my point. I don't know who told him so, but Silicon Valley is not the sole source of software jobs in the US. As I said, RTP right here in the triangle area of NC, Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, is a huge technology job market and has been called a mini Silicon Valley. I'm willing to bet that his family could move here, make the same amount of money and yet reduce his cost of living by nearly 75%. Talk about a pay raise. It's beautiful here too, lots to do, we have the mountains and the beach, tons of night life in the triangle area, plenty of top notch schools, such as UNC, where I happen to work at the hospital, Duke, NC State, all in the triangle area. We have IBM, Cisco, etc all here in RTP. RTP is a link you can check out. Check out this link to see how the triangle area consistently ranks in the top tier of all US nations on a wide host of markers.
Phaedrus
top tier of all US cities. Sorry. Wouldn't it be nice if we could edit comments?
Scio, Scio

Or maybe you'd prefer a consumption-driven, rather than income-driven, tax system....

I have considered it.
Scio, Scio

My friend, my point is that if you choose to live in probably the highest cost of living area in the country, and make no mistake, it is a choice, then you don't really have any room to complain about it.

That's a very glib assessment, and it misses the point. Schomer's choices in life are not the problem here. He should be able to make enough money to support his family without being taxed enormously.
It's taxation like this that causes people to move. It will cost the state and the industry.

Though to be honest, I've thought of moving to NC myself. I'm in Virginia now. Hampton Roads, home of the $3000 speeding ticket scheme.
Phaedrus
It seems to me that YOU have missed the point. Excessive taxation is not his problem. He is not even in the highest tax bracket. His complaint is that he makes too much to receive the refunds that most of us will be receiving next month. His problems with not being able to adequately support his family lies with the high cost of living, excessive cost of living, where he lives. Taxation has NOTHING to do with it. What will cause people like him to move is not "taxation like this", it's the high cost just to live.

I used to live in Hampton Roads myself when I was in the Navy many moons ago.
downthedip

Having just done my taxes, I feel Schomer's pain.

I even get where he's coming from as far as the car thing.

I have to wonder, though, if I'm the only one here who remembers the stories about unfriendly Oregonians telling people from California who moved there in the 80s and 90s to go back to California because they were driving up the cost of living north of the state line. Schomer and people like him moving to the Bay Area drove up the cost of living there, and here he is complaining about it. Ironic.



Schomer
I appreciate everyone's feedback, and I am not as upset as I might sound. However, if this happens, I will be. :-)

Taxes really are an issue for me here. It's not even the price of the house that is getting me. Loans are still historically cheap. The problem is, you get into a house, and then you get hit with tax after tax. $10,000 for property tax, $3,000 for supplemental taxes, utility taxes, income tax, sales tax, etc, and then not getting tax breaks that most middle Americans are getting, like a child credit or a rebate. That makes no sense to me. I'm not a rich American.
jenjarbo
Ahh....NO....not the beer! Anything but beer!
Dave
California is the end of the rainbow, and pretty soon you'll find your house has turned into a pot of gold.

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